Water under the bridge: Paul Cave & the serendipity of ticket number one

Question: What is one of the hardest jobs in a business, yet, also potentially, the most powerful?

Answer: Handling the complaints of customers.

The people handling those complaints know exactly what is going on, and, if they have the power, or are listened to, can transform a business.

If they merely respond by " fixing” the symptoms, the opportunity is lost. The better companies use the complaints to improve their whole organisation.

One of the reasons why Paul Cave's Sydney Harbour BridgeClimb has been so successful is that he - personally - handles and addresses, every single customer complaint.

Whether you are an entrepreneur, or executive, the experiences of Paul Cave in the Sydney Harbour BridgeClimb have profound lessons. I started the Management MasterClass series by talking to Cave.

When you view the interview, you will be surprised that 200,000 people, each year, climb the bridge and go through that very personal experience. But, just as surprising, is the nine years of delay Cave had to suffer to get the climb started. Cave describes some of his obstacles.

Frank Lowy, Harry Triguboff and most other property developers, will tell you that dealing with governments always takes longer than you expect - although nine years is a long time.

Too many people underestimate the time it will take to implement a decision, especially if outside parties are involved. And new projects can so easily go pear-shaped, as Cave found when he was about to sign a similar deal to climb New York's Brooklyn Bridge, when the 9/11 attack took place.

Cave's father, the late Les Cave, was a protg of the legendary Sydney entrepreneur, John Marks. Les Cave became CEO of Australian Consolidated Industries, a glass manufacturer and packager, which was then, a giant Australian company. It was later broken up.

Paul Cave was, in some ways, groomed for executive life, but watching his father's experience made him want to do something himself. One of the reasons Cave was successful, was that he had patient backers behind him.

This is vital if you are developing a new idea - whether it be in a small enterprise, or large company.

Business Spectator's Robert Gottliebsen speaks to Paul Cave (transcript):

RG: Until I talked to Paul Cave, I didn't realise that 200,000 people, a year, climb the Sydney Harbour Bridge. I also didn't realise how difficult it was to get that project off the ground. It took nine years. And it wouldn't have happened if Paul Cave hadn't have had a really nasty problem with the bureaucracy when he was running, or developing, a tile business; and he learned through that how you go about the process.

And, I think, a really big lesson from the talk with Paul Cave is that when you get an idea, whether it be through a big company, or when you're starting your own business, it can often take a lot longer than you expect and that length of time is extended if you have to deal with governments, or unions, or all sorts of other bodies, but if your idea is good, you can make a lot of money.

Paul, I knew your father, the late Les Cave, and he became the CEO of one of our larger companies. Why didn't you go into the big corporate arena yourself? And a good example?

PC: Well, a good example. Well, I think watching him, he was an incredible inspiration in my life. He was such a competitive guy, but also financially you, once you're a chief executive, there's a lid on what you can earn and you've got to play with that political system in public companies and corporate governance and those sorts of things. So, I always really wanted to do my own thing.

RG: Of course, in those days, the CEOs didn't get paid a lot either in the big companies.

PC: No, not really. No.

RG: So, you started off and you started Amber Tiles. Is that right?

PC: Yes. Yes. Amber was the first business I started, and I ran it for about 25 years, probably stayed about five years beyond my use by date, but, yes.

RG: But, you actually became one of the largest tile retailers in the country, didn't you?

PC: Yes, we did. We had about 18 outlets, and we were manufacturing some product as well, so we were in paving bricks and ceramic tiles.

RG: And then you sell to the staff. What did you do that for?

PC: Well look, as I said, I think I stayed beyond my use by date and the business really needed the franchise and I really was the person who stopped that happening and because people who I'd been effectively in partnership with, didn't really want the rules to change into franchising and I really was the show-stopper ... I, in the end, needed to move out and the business has since franchised and done very well.

RG: So, you think there's, in terms of entrepreneurs, there's a time to leave?

PC: Absolutely. And, often, entrepreneurs do need a kick upstairs. I know I've needed a nudge a few times, and I think that's really important to … Because entrepreneurs are so passionate, and so emotionally involved in businesses, that they frequently can't see a lot of other aspects.

RG: It's a mistake a lot of them make, isn't it?

PC: It's a frequent mistake. Most entrepreneurs are not good operational people. They are much better with their sniffer. They're much better with the passion, and the idea and the drive; and they need to be complemented, invariably, with other skills.

RG: So, how did you get the idea of people climbing the bridge as a tourist attraction and a business?

PC: Robert, it started… It's a long story, but as a 19-year-old, I met the man who was to become my father-in-law and on the day the bridge opened, he as a 13-year-old, as a teenager, came in for the opening of the bridge, and then, rolled his blanket up and slept at Wynyard railway station on the 19th of March, 1932. At 5am, the next morning, he bought ticket number one for crossing the bridge by train; and that was amazing. So, ultimately I inherited that rail ticket and it stimulated me to collect the bridge's history, which I've now got some 6,000 pieces of in my personal collection, and that's really where, originally, the passion and interest in the bridge came from.

RG: But you had to get permission to enable people to climb the bridge. How did you … And New South Wales is a pretty tough place to do these things. How did you go about that?

PC: Well, look, we put together a business plan. Having climbed a group of people and watched their reaction, which was just quite amazing, I thought I've just got to share this with the world. And we needed to find a way to make it safe, and prudent, and sensible, to do and work in with the maintenance of the bridge and the traffic. So, we put together a pretty comprehensive business plan. In fact, in the end it took us two-and-a-half years to put the business plan together in a very thorough sort of way, and ultimately, had that plan ready to present to the government.

RG: But how long did it take from the day you started on that plan, to the day you get the business going?

PC: Yes. Yeah, nine years.

RG: Nine years?

PC: Yes. Yes. Yes.

RG: What on earth took nine years?

PC: Well, look, it was a gutsy call on the government to … for a private individual to want the bridge leased and licensed to them for a long time, which is what I was seeking - and really we were a world's first - so, you know, it's a valuable icon, and there's a lot of traffic on it, and there are unions and people on it; so convincing them, I think, that we could do it and it would be totally safe and that the maintenance could continue, you know, took a lot of doing. A lot of environmental issues - and a lot of people who wanted to have their thumbprint on the bridge.

RG: Who were the hardest people to convince?

PC: Well, look, State Rail was probably one of the most challenging and one of their rules was you've got to … thou shalt wear a fluorescent orange jacket when you're within six metres of rail track; makes good sense, but we were putting people in a grey suit to blend them into the bridge and we were putting them on a one-metre lanyard, so you couldn't get anywhere near the trains, but oh no, they're our rules and it actually took two years, and I think, 20 or 30 meetings with State Rail, until ultimately, they came around.

RG: Of course, the workers on the bridge didn't have harnesses in the old days, did they?

PC: No. No.

RG: So, they mightn't have wanted you up there either.

PC: Well, look, I think the workers probably … We were happy to want to show their bridge off to the world, but they were probably a little concerned that this is our space, and what changes have they got to make, and I think, we were … in some ways, we were somewhat threatening in that area and we needed to work really hard to get them on-side.

RG: So, how many people climb the bridge every day and every year, roughly?

PC: We're climbing a couple of hundred-thousand people, a year, so today five or six-hundred people are climbing, yes.

RG: That's a lot of people, isn't it?

PC: It is a lot of people, yes. Yeah.

RG: So, what do you learn about people when you put them in that situation? How many get half-way and stop and what happens?

PC: Well, we really prepare people well before they do the climb. They climb a simulator first. Of course, it is totally safe. We haven't had a serious injury of any type. We haven't had a heart attack, despite the fact, we've climbed two-and-a-half million people over 11 years. So, you know, it's a thoroughly safe thing to do. But, in terms of learning, I mean some people are … have a discomfort with height, and I think, it enables them to overcome that. And we're climbing now people who are wanting to push boundaries. I mean, someone will make a booking and they've had a heart bypass operation, only a week ago, so you're seeing that sort of issue. You're seeing people … We had a marriage proposal on the bridge this morning, so you're seeing all sorts of things, but you really are seeing people dealing with a very personal journey and a personal experience.

RG: Do you learn something about entrepreneurs or CEOs in this process? Do you find weaknesses in them?

PC: Oh, I think, you see other aspects of people - and people who are emotionally affected - and you will see people with tears streaming out their eyes, and you think: where did that come from? Well, so many people have stories that relate to the bridge, or its construction, or there's some sort of personal emotional button that it pushes for them, and so, it takes people into another part of their lives, that many don't frequently ever get into.

RG: Do companies use this as executive training?

PC: Yes. Some of them do, and certainly, they're very interested in the systems of the way this works, so we get a lot of people looking at the way we prepare, and how thorough the entire system is, and the feedback we get, because I'm a quality control freak and yes, they're fascinated by those concepts, and the way this works.

RG: Do you think … a lot of our businesses don't have the requirement to be so exact, as is required when there's a bridge climb.

PC: Well, probably, one of the things that sticks out to me … I mean, although there's a chief executive of this business, and I'm the chairman, as it were - chairman in inverted commas - but, you know, I personally look after customer complaints and that's all I have to do. If I do that, you know, the rest of the business ...

RG: So, you look after the customer complaints?

PC: Yeah.

RG: And what's the main one?

PC: Well, look, you get a range of things. We get many, many, more compliments, but we're not looking for the compliments. We're really looking for the customer that might say, well look, I didn't pass your breath test, this morning, and maybe, I wasn't handled as I thought I should have been. Now, we want to know those things. So, we would make a change to that business … The chief executive makes a change to that business, probably, once every fortnight, and has done for 11 years, as a result of customer feedback and a comment that a customer has made; and that's gold to us, so you want to encourage that genuinely to happen.

RG: So, who owns your business?

PC: Well, we have the bridge leased for a 20-year period.

RG: Ok. So, you're about half-way?

PC: Yes. Yes. We've got five shareholders and between us, you know, it's a private business.

RG: And these are the original shareholders?

PC: Yes. There are, in fact, six of us. In fact, the six who started are still shareholders today.

RG: Brett Blundy was one of them, from Sanity.

PC: Brett Blundy, yeah. Jack Cowen. They're the two major shareholders. And we've got three other smaller shareholders.

RG: And they've stayed with you the whole time?

PC: They have. Yeah.

RG: And do you make lots of money?

PC: It's been a profitable business, it has. It was a long lead-in to this, and took a lot more time and money, in an investment sense; but the business was an incredible financial and business success, and we've worked hard at it, you know, from day one.

RG: Paul, what's your advice to somebody who has an idea, and then runs into roadblocks, as you obviously must have run into for it to be a nine-year incubation? What's your advice to them?

PC: Robert, I previously had a lesson in my life, where I stuffed up with a real estate site, with Amber, that I was wanting to buy an adjoining site and I mucked it up with the town-planning guy and didn't, with that bureaucrat, kiss his butt, as I should have done at the time. And it was a great lesson to have, whilst I, fundamentally, was able, by taking the council to court, to Land and Environment, to win that court case. I won the battle, but I sure as hell, lost the war. And it took a couple of years and a lot of money. Now, it was a good lesson to have before making BridgeClimb happen, because the bridge is owned by the people, and the government, and there are so many areas of sensitivity. We had to work with bureaucracy, and politics, and it was great to have had that lesson to understand the simplistic thing; that of one needing to find solutions, always, to what may threaten, or make a government, or a bureaucrat, discomforted.

RG: But if you had have known back in '89 that it was going to take you nine years, would you have done it?

PC: No, I wouldn't have, but you know and I really think that sometimes it's good not to know. You know it … I was guesstimating I could do this in two years for a couple of million dollars. It cost several more millions of dollars and 10 years in effect, so that was a tedious process, but you know, there was gold at the end of the rainbow.

RG: How did you live at that time?

PC: It was a really, really tough time. It was very tough. And … But fortunately I'm pretty obsessive, and pretty anal, and focused to … and it required a lot of tenacity, but you know we got there, thank goodness.

RG: Paul, have you tried to do this anywhere else in the world?

PC: Well, we'd love to be able to do that. I set up a separate company, BridgeClimb International. We've been working on a number of other icons and one of them that I can talk about is the Brooklyn Bridge, in New York, and we've had the mayor of New York work with us and is positive about this. We had done a lot of work on that bridge, over a couple of years, with a team of people who have been working with me - and we had heads of agreement underway, and then, I was on my way flying across there, in fact, when an aeroplane flew into a building in New York and my team were waiting for me in the US.

RG: 9/11.

PC: Yeah. 9/11. So…

RG: And it stopped it?

PC: It stopped it. So … And the cost of terrorism insurance, which is about five billion dollars to replace that bridge, is some tens of millions of dollars per annum, so you know there are some interesting things we've got to deal with.

RG: Why did it stop it longer-term? What caused … I understand why it might stop it for two or three years, but why is it blocking it now?

PC: Well, that country, and New York particularly, I think, there's a lot of jumping at shadows understandably for terrorism, so you know we've just got to work with that. Ultimately, I think there'll be a solution, ultimately, and we're working still on striving to make that happen.

RG: Thanks, Paul.

PC: Thank you.